Comments on: We live in a real world, come back to it.

By: Obi-Mom Kenobi

Obi-Mom Kenobi — Fri, 01 May 2009 12:25:38 +0000

Actually, I ran into the City Manager at a bicycling conference last week and told him the whole story. He hung his head and gave a heavy sigh. Then he said, “I’ll definitely be looking into THAT.”

By: Hilary

Hilary — Fri, 01 May 2009 12:05:41 +0000

You sent this to the City Manager along with the paper, right?

By: Theresa

Theresa — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:50:04 +0000

What a great discussion! And OM—You’re new website is fantastic!
Re: the topic at hand.
John Taylor Gatto’s latest book, “Weapons of Mass Instruction” talks about some of this sort of stuff. What came to mind in particular is how he talks about our public education system being the largest jobs program.
And I too appreciated the respectful discussion even though opinions differ.

By: dbone

dbone — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 06:42:27 +0000

first impulse is to agree wholeheartedly…but i wonder if a wee bit of government waste isn’t better than a lean efficient public works system and 25% unemployment. or maybe we can just tax people who earn 100-10,000 times what these gardeners make at say 25% (or less), then we can easily afford to have tree planting parties and AIG executives will have to settle for five Aston Martins. more trees + more employed people = shady happy times

By: Vander Kitten

Vander Kitten — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 05:56:21 +0000

Anya and Obi-Mom: thank you. Thank you for your civil and courteous discourse. Lately I’ve seen so much sniping, insult, and bickering in comments and other communication devices on-line that I’ve been believing that civil discussion was dead on The Interweb. You two lovely ladies have given me hope. You rock.

By: Anya

Anya — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:47:12 +0000

Obi-Mom Kenobi, I suppose that what we have here is a rather interesting case of clashing mentalities. I’m Russian, and have lived almost all my life in Moscow.
Although I don’t support the Kommunists or think that the Soviets should be restored, I realize that some of their ideas are firmly stuck in our mentality, and have been for centuries. We rely on the state very much, we believe that it is its duty to take care of us when there’s trouble. Actually, we are rather like eternal children. That is why it’s natural for me think the way I do. National specifics, I guess.
However, it is very refreshing for me to read about your point of view, because that is what we are taught in all our progressive universities and don’t always truly understand. Moreover, it is quite a relief to find out that somewhere people still believe that they should be independent and not rely on their government to take care of them.
And by the way, I’m glad that the place where you live is such a safe one, but in Moscow, the crime rate has definitely risen since the beginning of the crisis.
“A strong economy”, “a strong nation” and “a strong citizenry” are what we all aspire to. But our countries, our cultures, our mentalities, our traditions are so different that it is impossible to devise a universal way of achiving those things. So I believe we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

By: Musing

Musing — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 20:24:04 +0000

If it were in our city I might suggest using those extra five guys to fix all the potholes in our streets!

By: Topsy-Techie

Topsy-Techie — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 18:38:52 +0000

What a terrific post…I agree with the other commenter. This one is crying out to be a “Letter to the Editor”. :0)

By: Obi-Mom Kenobi

Obi-Mom Kenobi — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 17:31:16 +0000

Anya, I believe we have a primary difference of opinion in the role of government. I do not believe that government has any place in creating employment, but rather should employ only those people necessary to provide required and desired services to its residents and citizens (police, fire, child protection services, park maintenance, etc) in a cost-effective and efficient manner. Those first three being required services for a community, the last merely a commonly desired service – as deemed by the voting public.

I do not believe that any of the 5-6 men in my example would have a life of crime as their most likely alternative to government employment. Life is not so black and white. I live in a state with one of the highest levels of unemployment in the US, but our crime rates haven’t gone up exponentially. The reason is that as certain jobs are drying up, people without the necessary skills for the current market are moving out to areas with more jobs. My husband is currently in threat of losing his job (as are several others). Some people (with less education, poor work habits, or unnecessary skill sets) have already been laid-off, others are out on temporary leave, others (my husband included) are working less hours and everyone in the company has taken a pay cut to help ride out this down-turn. It’s the cycle of employment.

Saving for the bad times, getting and maintaining a relevant education, really earning your pay (instead of goofing off on the job), not “needing” the latest and greatest of everything (I’d love a new car, but choose to drive an old, reliable one instead) – those, and not a “guaranteed” government job, are the real keys to a strong economy, a strong nation and a strong citizenry.

By: Anya

Anya — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 14:13:06 +0000

I like your story, and I agree that often municipal budgets and management are disastrous, it’s a problem all over the world (I live in Russia=)).
Howeever, despite “wasting” money on extra employees, the City creates work places so people actually HAVE a job. So it’s basically a matter of opinion: whether you care more about your tax money being spent irrationally or about giving people a chance to earn their living and not to go out in the street and rob someone.